tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post894191433024375176..comments2024-03-11T21:16:59.321-07:00Comments on Deity Shmeity: "Lack of Belief"Grundyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07339125862340793733noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-53048602891820533372013-08-25T07:30:59.553-07:002013-08-25T07:30:59.553-07:00I for one, do not believe in the Biblical God, but...I for one, do not believe in the Biblical God, but do believe in a "Divine Creator"... or what ever it was that created humanity and our marvelous earth. Of course newborns are born not believing in anything but a nipple being popped into their mouths. No one believes in any God until someone tells them about the variety there is and they make a choice to believe or not to.Anna Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11945983971515869500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-44445159268808442132013-08-25T07:28:02.433-07:002013-08-25T07:28:02.433-07:00@Randy: And just how can a listener hearing someo...@Randy: And just how can a listener hearing someone SAY "God" pick up the capitalization of the 'g'? All they hear is "god". If someone hears "I know there is no god" they may infer the person is an atheist, provided the possibility the claimant is a liar or paradoxical is discounted. Keep it real.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-39361115845779186792013-08-25T07:07:36.146-07:002013-08-25T07:07:36.146-07:00So you're saying newborn infants "believe...So you're saying newborn infants "believe there is no God?" Or what about people that are uncertain? 100% overlap... REALLY!?!!?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-43827287294346934732013-06-09T19:04:37.612-07:002013-06-09T19:04:37.612-07:00Great post.Great post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-65999251429807313302013-05-31T07:58:30.830-07:002013-05-31T07:58:30.830-07:00Sure, right up until you start saying that your st...Sure, right up until you start saying that your statement of belief is an argument of knowledge, I agree with you. "I don't believe in gods" is a belief. "I believe no gods exist" is a belief. "I know that no gods exist" is not a belief, it is an assertion of knowledge.Cephushttp://bitchspot.jadedragononline.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-70361455712367447682013-05-30T19:19:42.444-07:002013-05-30T19:19:42.444-07:00Albert Einstein, who I accept to be the most brill...Albert Einstein, who I accept to be the most brilliant scientist of the 20th century, called himself an agnostic, while disassociating himself from the label atheist, preferring, he said an "attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."<br /> <br />And that my friends is pretty much the way I feel, other than what Anna Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11945983971515869500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-74603756563129505022013-05-30T17:55:36.281-07:002013-05-30T17:55:36.281-07:00Sorry one more thing. I agree "No" is an...Sorry one more thing. I agree "No" is an answer, but then begs the question what is the point of prayer. Clearly the point of the prayer is pre-determined so there is no point to prayer.Christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01243905647317437724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-81694711183751581042013-05-30T17:52:26.119-07:002013-05-30T17:52:26.119-07:00Grundy is correct about this. I actually have blog...Grundy is correct about this. I actually have blogged about this and the disbelief among some Christians that prayer actually does work. <br />http://iamchristianiamanatheist.blogspot.kr/2013/04/godandscienceorg-and-lies-i.html<br /><br />Also the link below by Will Ockham is a good one.Christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01243905647317437724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-25178592253327956182013-05-30T16:56:43.079-07:002013-05-30T16:56:43.079-07:00My new post talks about this. To me, a statement o...My new post talks about this. To me, a statement of belief isn't a statement of knowledge, it's just a personal, subjective assessment. This assessment can be based on complete knowledge, some knowledge, or none at all.Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07339125862340793733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-30512851337816510352013-05-30T16:52:44.115-07:002013-05-30T16:52:44.115-07:00Don't take the comment that you have biases as...Don't take the comment that you have biases as a slight, I surely have biases too. We both have biases that have nothing to do with religion, confirmation bias likely informs your belief that prayer works. The scientific method is to filter out such biases.Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07339125862340793733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-59502163561042338262013-05-30T16:23:13.553-07:002013-05-30T16:23:13.553-07:00True, but a statement of knowledge is a statement ...True, but a statement of knowledge is a statement about knowledge and if you have no way of having such knowledge, then your statement is false on it's face. You cannot know, to any degree of certainty, that gods do not exist, any more than theists can know, to any degree of certainty, that they do. The same applies to alien abductions, Bigfoot and unicorns. There's no reasonable way Cephushttp://bitchspot.jadedragononline.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-31902672648125727882013-05-30T14:47:26.535-07:002013-05-30T14:47:26.535-07:00http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studies_on_intercesso...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studies_on_intercessory_prayer<br /><br />I'll just leave this here.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15569246849951156854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-3378409757692889732013-05-30T08:50:01.539-07:002013-05-30T08:50:01.539-07:00Grundy dear...you can claim I have "biases&qu...Grundy dear...you can claim I have "biases" but you couldn't "scientifically" support it as I believe in no religion.<br /><br />There is no way the results of prayer could be "scientifically" studied to prove it's non-effect to scientist's. Who in the heck "up there" would be listening to such arrogance?Anna Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11945983971515869500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-10850273890403972342013-05-30T07:54:52.193-07:002013-05-30T07:54:52.193-07:00Prayer is scientifically shown not to work. The &q...Prayer is scientifically shown not to work. The "scientific" part is important because it means that when prayers are tested with a large sample size against a control group using the scientific method, prayer has no effect on the outcome. It may seem to work to you, but that is subject to your biases.Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07339125862340793733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-59981118246928032572013-05-30T07:51:40.341-07:002013-05-30T07:51:40.341-07:00Is there an example of someone who does not believ...Is there an example of someone who does not believe in God yet believes there is a God? I don't think so. There is 100% overlap between people who "do not believe in God" and "believe there is no God." Both are statements of belief, neither of which need to be true in an objective way.Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07339125862340793733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-6986885767059129312013-05-30T07:15:51.459-07:002013-05-30T07:15:51.459-07:00Saying prayer has been "scientifically proven...Saying prayer has been "scientifically proven" to not work is about as illogical as saying you can come up with proof positive that "most" gods can not to be believed because prayer doesn't work. It works for me and has all my life...and yes, I can accept "no" as an answer.<br /><br />I don't know what "God" is and I don't know what it isn'tAnna Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11945983971515869500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-76009862653301990762013-05-30T04:45:15.156-07:002013-05-30T04:45:15.156-07:00I can say I don’t believe in a god and I am sure f...I can say I don’t believe in a god and I am sure for most gods I can come up with a reason why I do not believe. For example the God/Jebus/Holy Spikit is not real as prayer has been scientifically proven to not work.<br /><br />But I still feel that It is not logical to say this in all cases, as something like Buddhism is well godless.Christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01243905647317437724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-60973929247080634432013-05-29T21:08:15.363-07:002013-05-29T21:08:15.363-07:00"No, I do not believe in God." (i.e. &qu..."No, I do not believe in God." (i.e. "I'm unconvinced")<br />is not essentially the same as <br />"I believe there is no God." (i.e. "You're wrong")<br />and none of them mean that you're atheist.<br /><br />Semantics are nothing to hide behind. They quite literally mean something.<br /><br />A member of any minority religion might reasonably Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06294841118508802764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-43815313286159479852013-05-29T19:47:13.224-07:002013-05-29T19:47:13.224-07:00You mean like Grundy? *cough*
Ha! Just kidding....You mean like <b>Grundy</b>? *cough*<br /><br />Ha! Just kidding. I know what you mean. :-)<br /><br />I think you've made some great points <b>Grundy</b>. I just hesitate to make it an atheist doctrine such that, as <b>Hausdorff</b> points out, you've got atheist "correcting" others about the particular semantics they favor.TWFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016277303703254572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-90866660809645556872013-05-29T18:22:41.125-07:002013-05-29T18:22:41.125-07:00It's funny. Thinking about this a bit more, it...It's funny. Thinking about this a bit more, it's not the phrase "lack of belief" that really bugs me. It's when one atheist tries to correct another. "It's not a disbelief in God, it's a lack of belief" or something like that. It's that kind of crap that really gets under my skin.Hausdorffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01690401058367596952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-17905624013856578542013-05-29T18:00:18.173-07:002013-05-29T18:00:18.173-07:00Interesting and thoughtful discussion. It isn'...Interesting and thoughtful discussion. It isn't clear to me that a need to defend one's stance necessarily means we should drop consideration of burdens of proof. rather the point is that a burden of proof skews the process in complex ways. Admittedly, the weak atheist position often fails to do that justice.northierthanthouhttp://northierthanthou.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-12042254618093546532013-05-29T15:15:16.381-07:002013-05-29T15:15:16.381-07:00Doh! I just used that phase when explaining to a ...Doh! I just used that phase when explaining to a myopic Christian that:<br /><br />"Atheists are a very diverse group. The only thing binding atheists is a lack of belief, and that is not really anything to bond over. :-)"<br /><br />You say to-mA-to. I say to-ma-to. Let's call the god thing off. ;-)<br /><br />I think its got its uses, like any phrase, but, yeah, it shouldn'TWFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016277303703254572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-15642939585253355842013-05-29T14:38:08.324-07:002013-05-29T14:38:08.324-07:00I suppose it's only when you have seen somethi...I suppose it's only when you have seen something unbelievable... and have heard something unbelievable...and have experienced something unbelievable...that you are willing to admit there is something unbelievable you have no explanation for "out there" that would not allow you to dismiss "a higher power" altogether as you atheist do. I am just as sure of what I know as youAnna Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11945983971515869500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-18911424309030980772013-05-29T13:01:32.911-07:002013-05-29T13:01:32.911-07:00I'm sure you aren't alone in not liking th...I'm sure you aren't alone in not liking that phrasing. I use it because I believe it is the most accurate way to understand atheism. Of course it isn't a mantra; it is just a reminder about the meaning of the Greek words on which "atheism" is based. This is its real origin. The burden of proof issue is relevant but secondary.<br /><br />I will take issue with your Jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09485781130885424400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217153430513050163.post-57429981577149627332013-05-29T11:46:15.234-07:002013-05-29T11:46:15.234-07:00Yeah, but a statement of disbelief isn't a sta...Yeah, but a statement of disbelief isn't a statement of certain knowledge.Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07339125862340793733noreply@blogger.com